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Start of conference MAIN
Monday, 10/13/1997
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Msg #1 Richard Nylen:
hello??
Msg #2 Gerald Lucas:
Good morning. I'd like you to begin by addressing the question:
What does Gurov's view of women reveal about him? Why does he
regard them as an "inferior race"?
Msg #3 Stacey Smith:
Good morning all. Hope you had a nice weekend
Msg #4 Mathew Zachariah:
Hey Class? How was everyone's weekend?
Msg #5 Dan White:
He is bitter from.
Msg #6 Stacey Smith:
You would think this man is a jerk, but he's not. He regards
women as inferior because he is terrified of his wife. He really
does feel some love for Anna, but I don't think he understands
how to express his feelings for her.
Msg #7 Mathew Zachariah:
this story was so confusing.
Msg #8 Hayoung Kim:
This story show me that Gurov thinks of women less than men and
disrespects them.I have found a line in the story which the main
character says that women are the inferior race because he
believes they have limited intelligence,narrow-minded, and dowdy.
Of course he was describing his wife but only thought of women as
confort,desire.
Msg #9 Rosalba Singh:
Good morning everyone.
Msg #10 Mathew Zachariah:
Hey Stacey!
Msg #11 Mathew Zachariah:
Msg #12 Shannon Royal:
Good morning class
Msg #13 Stacey Smith:
Hey Mathew
Msg #14 Pierre Joseph:
good morning... i think gurov just cant get ut straight,he had a
wife...
Msg #15 Richard Nylen:
ta da- lm back.... um-- his view- i agree with the feeling that
he was afraid of his wife
Msg #16 Mathew Zachariah:
Hey
Msg #17 Mathew Zachariah:
Msg #18 Scott Holland:
That's right! That's right! That's right! What is with this
affair thing?
Msg #19 Kimberly Conner:
Gurov is telling the reader that he is unfaithful to his wife and
obviously has a secret life outside of his normal life at home.
He's always seeking a new adventure, usually with a stranger. He
believes women are of the inferior race because they seem to
follow his notions of mischief, even if they don't know him all
too well.
Msg #20 Sarah Doran:
Personally I think the man is just an over poetic jigalo.
Msg #21 Hayoung Kim:
Gurov says in the story that his wife read a great deal as she
was an intellectual so I think he was afraid of his wife because
she is so self confident and smart.
Msg #22 Rosalba Singh:
Affairs happen alot in the real world not just in literature.
Obviously, neither one of them was happy in their present
marriage.
Msg #23 Matthew Gallagher:
He couldn't face his wife, so he had to go behind her back and
cheat.
Msg #24 Markesha Ruth:
He refers to them as an "inferior race" because of his past
experiences with them, but he feels more comfortable around them
than he does with other men.
Msg #25 Stacey Smith:
I think Gurov wants to have his cake and eat it too, he wants a
woman with whom he can find happiness, but he is not willing to
admit to himself that a woman could be his equal. His degrading
of women is the only way he can make himself feel better.
Otherwise he would simply be a man held under his wife's thumb.
Msg #26 Dan White:
I would say that he should have dumped his wife and she should
have dumped her husband and they should have run off together,
but I think that if they were together all of the time it never
would have worked. The fact that what they were doing was
forbidden drove them to it.
Msg #27 Scott Holland:
Sarah,
Gigolo, with a "J"?
Msg #28 Pierre Joseph:
also this guy almost appear to be a player to me, cause as the
narrotar said that he can always find something to say to a
women... he get along very well with women, yet he finds them
iferior. that is strange
Msg #29 Gerald Lucas:
What do you suppose his "bitter experience" was? See page 147,
second paragraph.
Msg #30 Shannon Royal:
Good morning fellow students
Msg #31 Sarah Doran:
Shut up! It's early! Pay attention to the facts not the spelling.
Msg #32 Richard Nylen:
it seems like a lot of people end up having extra-marital affairs
Msg #33 Stacey Smith:
Hey Sarah, did we forget our nice pill this morning???????
Msg #34 Hayoung Kim:
I don't think the wife disliked her husband. In the story, it
does not mention any of her feelings toward him.
Msg #35 Dan White:
Why do you think people cheat?
Msg #36 Richard Nylen:
dan- because it's easy
Msg #37 Mathew Zachariah:
I think that this story is more like what people go through in
life
Msg #38 Richard Nylen:
Something sinister that they can do behind someones back... and
they maybe even feel good about it
Msg #39 Matthew Gallagher:
dan-because society accepts it now.
Msg #40 Stacey Smith:
I think people cheat because they feel inferior to their spouses
and the only way the feel important is by being the hero, someone
better.....
Msg #41 Hayoung Kim:
In my opinion, some people cheat because they get bored with they
have and later on when a breakup occurs, they realize the
important thing they lost.
Msg #42 Richard Nylen:
Dmitry seems to be a fairly normal person... nothing
psychotic (sp) about him really
Msg #43 Sarah Doran:
I think that the problem with his marriage rests in the fact that
it was not for love but set up and now he is seeking what he has
never had. But that doesn't give him permission to cheat.
Msg #44 Gerald Lucas:
re #34: Why don't we get any of the wife's thoughts?
Msg #45 Stacey Smith:
sometimes they didn't lose anything, Hayoung
Msg #46 Pierre Joseph:
yeah society allows gurov behavior, if you ever heard of a women
doing such things she is cast out. o.k. sarah be nice
Msg #47 Hayoung Kim:
Stacey, what do you mean?
Msg #48 Gerald Lucas:
Of course Gurov seems familiar and normal. Why do you suppose
that is?
Msg #49 Stacey Smith:
The wife is not te central figure in the story. Besides, she
knows her huisband is a cheat. She even says, "philandering does
not suit you, Dmitry
Msg #50 Dan White:
Because the wife doesn't know. The way the story is written, it
doesn't give the wife much significance.
Msg #51 Rosalba Singh:
They were both cheating. It is very easy for people who have
never experienced what Gorov and Ana experienced to look at it as
something which is simply morally wrong. I think there is more to
it than that. Gorov did not respect women, especially not his
wife. Suddenly this woman comes along who he really doesn't take
seriously until she is gone. He claimed to have experienced love
for the first time leading him to find her. I thought it was
romantic.
Msg #52 Gerald Lucas:
Was this a nice, romantic love story?
Msg #53 Richard Nylen:
I cannot explain why he seems normal... It seems to me that he
isn't really doing anything out of the ordinary...
Msg #54 Mathew Zachariah:
Do you suppose that this story has any morals?
Msg #55 Hayoung Kim:
As you said, the wife maybe knows, but why do you think she is
still with him? I mean, she must really either love him or just
don't want to lose him for some other reason.
Msg #56 Richard Nylen:
Romantic? hardly-- I wouldn't call meeting in a hotel room for
sex romantic... even though he claimed to really like her.
Msg #57 Pierre Joseph:
did guy knew that he did not love his wife why did he marry her
then, the best thing to do was for him to stay single and when
that speciallady comes along . life would be good...
Msg #58 Dan White:
If he isn't doing anything out of the ordinary, does that mean it
is OK to have affairs?
Msg #59 Stacey Smith:
I mean, sometimes people cheat because the are totally miserable
in their current relationship. So an affair can sometimes lead
to a breakup, and sometimes what you're missing is not enough to
have made "working it out"worthwhile.
Msg #60 Sarah Doran:
Romantic? Yes if he wasn't married. I believe in one true love
and if its not his wife than he needs to leave her and find it.
Msg #61 Kimberly Conner:
I think he was probably involved in an affair at one time, a more
serious one than others. It grew to be more difficult than he
had anticipated. Perhaps his wife found out about it too.
Msg #62 Saimir Struga:
I think his cheating is the way he deals with the fact that he
has made a bad choice in life.
Msg #63 Richard Nylen:
Dan- no, it just seems as if it is more acceptable to have an
affair... and I believe that people had them just as much back
then as they do now
Msg #64 Gerald Lucas:
RE #57: Pierre, remember this remark: "They had found a wife for
him when he was very young." (146)? What is the significance of
this quotation?
Msg #65 Scott Holland:
". . . bitter experience" (p.147, para. 2) refers to impossible
love, born out of an affair, where neither party is able to leave
what they have and be with the other without vast turmoil and
angst. Besides, both would have to be willing to leave their
current "real" lives. This is all the more difficult to find. So,
as the affair grows and love lost through familiarity of spouse
is replaced by new, fresh, and exciting love, things get more and
more complex. Finally, one of the parties has to break it off,
this is the "bitter experience."
Msg #66 Sarah Doran:
Rick- are you saying it better to have an affair than a divorce?
Msg #67 Hayoung Kim:
To message #52, I really do not think its a love story at all.
First of all, he does not care for his wife.Then I really do not
think he loved the woman he cheated with.He liked being with that
woman but he thought less of her in that he did not truly care
for her feelings.
Msg #68 Rosalba Singh:
I don't think it matters that the wife didn't have much to say
because regardless if Gorov was a jerk to her he was not happy in
his marriage to her, looking for something else where. I don't
think he should've remained in his marriage, but the reality of
story is that Gorov had security. Sometimes people choose to
settle.
Msg #69 Liza Menietti:
I think that Gurov's view of women reveal that he is a very
passionate, and sensitive man. He expresses dislike for his wife
because he finds her very dull and uninteresting-that is why I
think that he is passionate. He likes women who are inspired and
mysterious. I think that the reference to women as the "inferior
race" is Gurovs way of getting back at the women who have hurt
him. He probably thinks that if he ridicules women,his bad
relationships of the past will not affect him so much-he can
place the blame on women.
Msg #70 Matthew Gallagher:
His family picked his wife and he had no say in it.
Msg #71 Richard Nylen:
im not condoning having affairs, but lets face it, it happens
every day... moreso than one wants to admit
Msg #72 Stacey Smith:
I think he had an arrainged marriage, and that he never loved the
woman to whom he is married. That's why he has affairs....to try
to find the love he never got to find
Msg #73 Pierre Joseph:
put it this way usually people cheat because something that the y
can find in the person that they are with, neccesarily its not
for attraction in the other women, or better body. most of the
time its for some kind of companinship
Msg #74 Gerald Lucas:
RE #65: If we don't have the imagination to make relationships
work, then why do we begin them? Are we capable of making a
long-term relationship last?
Msg #75 Dan White:
If his marriage was arranged, then that gives him different
motivation for having an affair.
Msg #76 Richard Nylen:
Relationships, in my opinion take a lot of work. If you want the
LTR, you will put forth the required effort to make it exciting
for the other person. I think the only reason they cheat is
because the relationship is boring and they need adventure in
their lives
Msg #77 Gerald Lucas:
Does anyone think that Gurov changes during the course of the
story?
Msg #78 Richard Nylen:
Dan- true, true
Msg #79 Sarah Doran:
Imagination only works in relationships in some aspects but when
it comes to create a false view of the relationship then it
becomes destructive.
Msg #80 Markesha Ruth:
Just because his marriage was arranged doesn't give him a right
to have an affair either, he should have gotten a divorce if he
wasn't happy with his wife.
Msg #81 Pierre Joseph:
he could have done something about the wife. you dont marry
because someone had found a wife for you, o.k. he m ay be
helpless in his life decision. which i think makes him
extremely inferior
Msg #82 Stacey Smith:
I think some people can make long relationships last, but it
takes the right two people. This isn't a typical thing anymore.
Nowadays, ten years is like being married forever. It simply
takes a lot of work, dedication, and the ability to truly love
one another.
Msg #83 Matthew Gallagher:
We are capable to make a long-term relationship happen. The only
way it will work if both people are into the relationship.
Msg #84 Kimberly Conner:
I don't think we can say that this story was good or bad. We
never hear of the wife's thoughts or the things that she might be
doing behind closed doors. She could have very well been a witch
herself. Perhaps she treated her husband with utter disrespect.
But we don't know that. What happened to Dmitry could have been
a good thing for him and his wife, however, without everyone's
thoughts in the story we cannot say.
Msg #85 Mathew Zachariah:
Well, most people try to work out a way while they are in the
realtionship which can sometimes lead to a dead end.
Msg #86 Scott Holland:
Familiar rather than boredom may be a better term.
Msg #87 Hayoung Kim:
We begin relationships because we like to be with someone who
cares.Some of us want short term relationships and no
responsibility(committment).
Msg #88 Gerald Lucas:
RE #84: Why, do you suppose, we do not hear the wife's thoughts,
Kim?
Msg #89 Gerald Lucas:
RE #86: Is the familiar a bad thing, Scott?
Msg #90 Rosalba Singh:
I think sometimes circumstance is what leads people into
relationships with certain people that they may never truly love.
I don't know why people would deny themselves a lasting
relationship with someone they truly love. In a way, I think that
some people are more concerned with security than love or
happiness.
Msg #91 Sarah Doran:
I think the only moral to this story is a lesson against arranged
marriages.
Msg #92 Shannon Royal:
Gurov's is an excellent example of SOME men today who feed off a
women's desire to be excepted by the opposite sex. It seems to
me Gurov searches for women who may see him as being intellectual
superior, therefore he has no fear of being rejected when he
ask a woman out for date.
Msg #93 Markesha Ruth:
I think he changes during the course of the story, because at the
beginning when he first met Anna he didn't really have any
feelings for her, but he didn't realize until after he returned
to Moscow how much he really did like her because she was all he
could think about.
Msg #94 Stacey Smith:
Sometimes moving on is better than staying in a constant
struggle. It is sometimes less stressful. It is also better
because if both parties finsd the relationship a lost cause, then
no problems will ever be solved, anyways
Msg #95 Scott Holland:
This seems to be a discussion of the morality of affairs. Bad is
a term I use very sparingly.
Msg #96 Gerald Lucas:
RE #87: What would be the point in a short-term relationship that
is not insidious or one-sided?
Msg #97 Gerald Lucas:
RE #95: Don't we all WANT familiarity and comfort?
Msg #98 Hayoung Kim:
Some people like to experience different types of people. Some
get bored being with some same person for a while and then seeks
for some other different experience.
Msg #99 Sarah Doran:
I don't think that Gurov is chauvanistic, I believe we all have
our gripes about the opposite sex. Admit it girls, we all have
our male bashing thoughts that are too often shared with one
another.
Msg #100 Rosalba Singh:
What about happiness?
What about love?
Msg #101 Scott Holland:
To fall in love briefly and feel very alive with a sensation I
find to be one of the best life has to offer. Meet a new woman,
learn of her life, of her, become intimate. It is some life's
greatest time. People moralize, yet I have found most who have
become trusting of me to yearn for the type of experience,
without having any feelings of disrespect for their partners.
Msg #102 Gerald Lucas:
RE #100: Exactly, Rosie, what about happiness? Isn't someone
always hurt by another's happiness? Do we care?
Msg #103 Richard Nylen:
I think we are all looking for love... but once we find it and
the newness wears off, that's when you have to work to keep it
interesting for the other person. If you can do that, then no, we
aren't necessarily looking for familiarity
Msg #104 Pierre Joseph:
i think a relationship can work between any two individual, all
it takesis the effort. after all with no effort hyou have
nothing. how realistic is it for us to find the same version of
one another in the opposite sex.
Msg #105 Richard Nylen:
re #104 yes, it takes work! I agree
Msg #106 Stacey Smith:
NO WAY ON EARTH!!!!! Some of us are not ready for familiarity
and comfort. It's good to live a little before settling down.
It's nice to date a variety of people so when you do settle down,
you find the person with the traits you like best. That way you
can also see what traits you hate, and what you can tolerate.
That would definitely help marriages last longer
Msg #107 Gerald Lucas:
RE #101: I agree, Scott, buit too often we end up hurting the
other person. Does Gurov? How is Gurov like ourselves?
Msg #108 Sarah Doran:
True love has a newness that never wears off, feelings that don't
last long aren't true love.
Msg #109 Scott Holland:
Re:#102 - Happiness, hurt . . . life. What does one expect life
to be? Societal norms are easy to pretend, reality of life is
difficult to own up to.
Msg #110 Hayoung Kim:
I personally think anyone who is to cheat on the other person in
a marriage is wrong. In a marriage or any other type of
committment, you have a sense of responsibilty to that person.If
there is any dislike within the relationship, he or she should
face it first before meeting a new significant other behind the
other's back.Gurov is irresponsible not to face his true feelings
to his wife.
Msg #111 Richard Nylen:
the newness does wear off, but the love doesn't end there
Msg #112 Gerald Lucas:
RE #109: Do you think this story presents that "realities of
life" well?
Msg #113 Stacey Smith:
Why do people feel the need to marry young or divorce so soon?
It's because they don't know who they're going to grow into, and
often they grow apart
Msg #114 Sarah Doran:
I think we all see this story differently because we all have our
own beliefs in love and happiness. Romanticism runs strong in
some yet not at all in others.
Msg #115 Richard Nylen:
true true
Msg #116 Pierre Joseph:
i think we should get doctor ruth here, at the least operah. i
think they can really disect gurov problem or mischief down to
simplication
Msg #117 Rosalba Singh:
I think when someone chooses to have an affair it is somewhat of
a selfish act, not considering the companions feelings. I also
feel that we need to make ourselves happy. Part of me was hoping
that by the end of the story they would end their marriages to be
together, but the realities of life are exactly how the story
ended....maintaining an affair.
Msg #118 Stacey Smith:
Go Pierre
Msg #119 Richard Nylen:
what is dr. ruth when we have all these opinions
Msg #120 Kimberly Conner:
RE #88: The wife's thoughts aren't revealed because this would
make Dmitry's character different. It would reveal why he does
things the way he does. Or maybe because the wife just doesn't
have any thoughts. She could be oblivious to what her husband is
doing.
Msg #121 Scott Holland:
re:112 - This story shows a small part of how life really is
inside one's head, which Anna & Dimtri must hide from all others
in their "family life."
Msg #122 Saimir Struga:
You`re getting too idealistic. Try living with the same person
(who you don`t love in the first place) for years, and divorce is
not an easy thing to do. What would most of you do?
Msg #123 Sarah Doran:
I don't believe that a young age has any effect on your growth as
a person it is the level of maturity and your love a person that
makes a marriage last, Stacey.
Msg #124 Stacey Smith:
I think selfishness can be good at times.....it allows the spirit
to grow and learn. But being selfish at someone else's expense
is never good. It is harmful to their well being and yours.
Msg #125 Liza Menietti:
I think Gurov grew to really love Anna. Anna and Gurov are much
happier together then in their current relationships. I think
that this is wonderful and that they should definately pursue
thier feelings for one another, but I do not endorse their
affair. TThey should each get a divorse before they continue
thier affair.
Msg #126 Gerald Lucas:
Thank you all for your comments.
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End of conference MAIN
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